NLG Retro 2011 planning

Great news from Illu indeed!

The amount of people that are going to be present on Saturday is probably gonna be pretty intense by the looks of it, maybe we should consider renting an extra fridge or something (is that sort of thing even remotely possible?). In order of likelihood of attendance the list goes like this:

confirmed
1 Marius
2 Ulf
3 Patrick
4 Karel
5 Piet
6 VAJ
7 Maurice
8 MJ
9 Wouter (F-ZX)

highly likely
10 Aron
11 Vincent 20-100
12 Illu
13 Rub

Possible
14 Lindsay
15 Yngve

Quite unlikely
16 Florent

if=hell freezes over, and=Fenner wins the Nobel prize in literature, then=confirmed
17 SZ

Really looking forward to this meet

I have a modded Super Famicom (50hz/60hz) and a SNES cartridge with every game released for the system on it, so all the choice in the world there . A personal favorite is also Street Fighter 2 Turbo. I'm by no means an expert at the game but I think it would be a fun tournament.

The F-Zero X Death Race challenge is great. This is the fastest known (console) strategy (it's really more difficult than it looks and the run in the video is just insane): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npZZxxtZYDY

Last year, I participated in an F-Zero X tournament where we just raced every track once. The game is as unforgiving as it gets so taking a very safe strategy often really pays off haha. One thing to consider doing races is whether to have the roulette on as it will have a huge impact on almost every race. Here's a vid of the tournament (we also did 10 random tracks at the end but the tournament was already decided really): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5OjE2wL6xg

I also have an AV Famicom (NES) with a bunch of games. I think Mega Man 2 and Ninja Gaiden could make a pretty cool challenge.

WMJ wrote: Ninja Gaiden

Fair shout!

Death Race vid is insane, we won't get close to such levels anyway yet.
And yes, by all means take a NES with you, we don't have that many and we need AT LEAST 2 for the simultaneous runs.

We also only have only 1 (non HD) TV suitable for this type of thing in-house.
I'm counting on VAJ for bringing 1 for sure, and Maurice bringing one to bring the tally up to 3. Then we have MJ who could bring 1 and maybe even 2. So in the best case scenario (as it looks currently) we'll have 5 tube TVs, which I feel is JUST enough, but not plenty.

WMJ wrote:Really looking forward to this meet

I have a modded Super Famicom (50hz/60hz) and a SNES cartridge with every game released for the system on it, so all the choice in the world there . A personal favorite is also Street Fighter 2 Turbo. I'm by no means an expert at the game but I think it would be a fun tournament.

The F-Zero X Death Race challenge is great. This is the fastest known (console) strategy (it's really more difficult than it looks and the run in the video is just insane): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npZZxxtZYDY

Last year, I participated in an F-Zero X tournament where we just raced every track once. The game is as unforgiving as it gets so taking a very safe strategy often really pays off haha. One thing to consider doing races is whether to have the roulette on as it will have a huge impact on almost every race. Here's a vid of the tournament (we also did 10 random tracks at the end but the tournament was already decided really): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5OjE2wL6xg

I also have an AV Famicom (NES) with a bunch of games. I think Mega Man 2 and Ninja Gaiden could make a pretty cool challenge.

Hi Wouter. Great shouts there, we had Mega Man 2 last time, whereas I failed terribly at Quick Man ( second to last stage pre-wily ) but oh well. Ninja Gaiden is one of my all time favs, but is that feasible for a challenge of this nature? It is QUITE hard iirc :S

To make stuff a bit more interesting I think we'd need some entrance fees for the various tourneys. I'm proposing 10 euros per head. That shouldn't be too much if you want to enter more than one tourney, and it leaves a significant pot.

So how about it?

EDIT: Typo. Shut up, Sar...

I was thinking of a pretty fun challenge, not sure if and where it would fit in though. The idea is to finish all DKC1,2,3 final bosses (including lost worlds of 2 and 3?). I have fully unlocked all 3 games, so it could be a nice and risky challenge for stage 1 maybe.

So only play the bosses and earn points in regards to how many you beat w/o dying.

Hey guys, long time no see.

I've spoken some to Eise Smit who would also be interested in participating if he can afford.

Patrik Nilsson is probably all booked up this summer, although I haven't had a chanse to ask him yet if it would be possible for him to join.

Marius also asked a question about having Goldeneye (00 agent) as a challenge in stage 1, whether it's too hard or something. Well not failing anything would be required also I assume besides from surviving, that is doable, just takes lots of knowledge of the game and you'd need be able to improvise alot in various situations and use safe strategies.

This would end up taking around 50minutes if playing until the end cinema shows up, if doing the bonus levels also then add some 5-10min.

If this is something that we all would have to do then I'd say it's too hard though, if it's an option for someone who is confident in beating it then I would choose it depending on what the other options are ofcourse. I remember Karel beat Mario Kart on 150cc special cup first try in 2008 and I was amazed, that is something that I wouldn't be able to do, not knowing much about MK I make this rough comparison but I would definitely be confident in Goldeneye enough to choose that instead.

But yea choose agent difficulty if everyone has to do it, it would still take some practise/knowledge by those who haven't played much Goldeneye to know where to be careful as not to fail anything, if this is a 3 attempt thing then it's not that bad on agent either, I can beat agent in 20-22min playing it safe enough.

Illu wrote:

Snip.

Thanks for the input Illu.

The GE challenge was indeed intended for Stage 1, meaning people not confident can choose not to do it.
If you feel it is a good challenge on 00 Agent, then the rules will be no deaths, starting from a new save file, earning 1 point pr stage that is beaten. If you die, for example at Frigate, you get 6 points and move on to one of your other picks for Stage 1.

Could you do a few test runs and tell me how long it takes, when and where you die etc. Lets say 5 attempts, just to check the lay of the land?
The idea is just like you said, someone experienced in the game ( as is the case with Karel and SMK ) should be able to , perhaps not beat the entire thing every attempt, but at least get something like 8-12 points on average ( roughly).

Karel: Im afraid I am not very well versed in the end bosses of DKC2 and DKC3. I would have to go to video evidence to give my verdict on that. However it does sound too short for Stage 1? As in I cant give 5 points pr boss for a total of 15

I did actually try last night and I beat GE on 00a first try even though I haven't tried this in 2-3 years.. I did get into lots of troublesome situations though and ended up taking around an hour for beating it. About 1h 10min it took, I did aztec and egypt also though, aztec was funny since I lost lots of health in the first room so had to go safe from there, ended up taking like almost 9 minutes for aztec haha.. don't remember when I last took that long to beat aztec on 00a.

But yea I would like this challenge, mostly where you get into trouble is when I get to bunker2... later on jungle, control and caverns can be a pain sometimes. You do have to watch yourself on Dam too though and Facility (know all areas where doak might be, take all things into consideration) maybe kill some extra guards in some key areas and you should be fine and probably beat at least 5 levels up to Silo should be doable for many with some practise.

You definitely have to throw Wave Race 64 into the mix though, at least as a possibility in stage 3, wonderful game, both me and Eise like it very much.

Illu wrote:You definitely have to throw Wave Race 64 into the mix though, at least as a possibility in stage 3, wonderful game, both me and Eise like it very much.

It was in there ( Stage 3 ) but I later removed it due to nobody speaking up for it. However, if you feel like it should be in there that can easily be arranged

As for GE, its very hard for me to judge, but how about 00a, 1 point pr level ( egypt and aztec included for a total of 20? ) with a time-limit of 1 hour? Most games will have time limits, usually somewhere around speedrun WR x 1.5-2.0 depending.

Does that sound ok?

Also if you know of any vids showing a run like this I`d love to see a link and check it out.

Sargoth wrote:Great shouts there, we had Mega Man 2 last time, whereas I failed terribly at Quick Man ( second to last stage pre-wily ) but oh well. Ninja Gaiden is one of my all time favs, but is that feasible for a challenge of this nature? It is QUITE hard iirc :S

I think Ninja Gaiden would make a pretty good Stage 1 game. The game is quite hard but the mechanics are simple and easy to learn and it's also very short. A normal completion time is something between 15 - 20 minutes. The game has 21 stages over 6 worlds. A good challenge would be to complete the game without a game over (you start with 3 lives). I think a good scoring system would be something like this: 1 point for world 1, 2 points for worlds 2 and 3 each, 3 points for worlds 4 and 5 each, 4 points for world 6. Making a total of 15 points.

Illu wrote:You definitely have to throw Wave Race 64 into the mix though, at least as a possibility in stage 3, wonderful game, both me and Eise like it very much.

I also like Wave Race 64 a lot so I would be in favor .

WMJ wrote:

Sargoth wrote:Great shouts there, we had Mega Man 2 last time, whereas I failed terribly at Quick Man ( second to last stage pre-wily ) but oh well. Ninja Gaiden is one of my all time favs, but is that feasible for a challenge of this nature? It is QUITE hard iirc :S

I think Ninja Gaiden would make a pretty good Stage 1 game. The game is quite hard but the mechanics are simple and easy to learn and it's also very short. A normal completion time is something between 15 - 20 minutes. The game has 21 stages over 6 worlds. A good challenge would be to complete the game without a game over (you start with 3 lives). I think a good scoring system would be something like this: 1 point for world 1, 2 points for worlds 2 and 3 each, 3 points for worlds 4 and 5 each, 4 points for world 6. Making a total of 15 points.

Illu wrote:You definitely have to throw Wave Race 64 into the mix though, at least as a possibility in stage 3, wonderful game, both me and Eise like it very much.

I also like Wave Race 64 a lot so I would be in favor .

Sounds good . I`ll add Wave Race back in then. I know Steven Zwartjes used to be a top player in that game as well.

When it comes to Ninja Gaiden, yeah I can do a scoring system like that, sure, but a few things remain. First off, i do not own a copy of the game at this point in time. Do anyone have it? Secondly, Isnt this game one of the most unforgiving games of all time? I recall inventing quite a few cursewords the last time I played it, in which i completely gave up on the last screen before the final boss.
Doesnt seem like a sane idea for anyone to pick this game for 15 points, how about a corresponding amount of points pr level?
1 point for level 1, 2 points for level 2, 3 points for level 3 and so on, making a total of 21 points. Deaths allowed, but no continues? If that is the way the game works, I forget.

Going to try to find a playthrough somewhere, just to see if I can grasp the difficulty of it, as it has been a few years since Ive touched it.

EDIT : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkKlSdUxBhM&feature=related I defo recall Level 2-2, that one is the first point of frustration I guess. And the 3-3 boss is hard as well...
4-3 and 4-4 ... damn. This game has caused me a great deal of frustration
And that damned decending section on 5-2.

Allright, if we have a copy, this should be good to go.

Btw , does anyone of you have a decent cam to capture the matches finals casuals etc during NLG? I need to know asap, otherwise im gonna have to buy one.

Sargoth wrote:Btw , does anyone of you have a decent cam to capture the matches finals casuals etc during NLG? I need to know asap, otherwise im gonna have to buy one.

i got something that can record for about 10 minutes

Sargoth wrote:
As for GE, its very hard for me to judge, but how about 00a, 1 point pr level ( egypt and aztec included for a total of 20? ) with a time-limit of 1 hour? Most games will have time limits, usually somewhere around speedrun WR x 1.5-2.0 depending.

Does that sound ok?

Also if you know of any vids showing a run like this I`d love to see a link and check it out.

1 hour time limit sounds about perfect for GE on 00A.

Here's two direct links to a couple good GE 00A speedruns, the first one is my own personal record for this and the one by Rayan Isran (Ace) was the world record at the time he got it.

Illu GE 00A 43:20

Rayan Isran (Perfect Ace) GE 00A 40:58

The world record now is quite amazing 38:20min by Henning Blom, I also have that vid but it's not uploaded anywhere that I know of.

oh yea there's a wave race timespage btw, made by Eise Smit wave race 64 wrs

There's links to videos for all my NTSC records.

Sargoth wrote:When it comes to Ninja Gaiden, yeah I can do a scoring system like that, sure, but a few things remain. First off, i do not own a copy of the game at this point in time. Do anyone have it? Secondly, Isnt this game one of the most unforgiving games of all time? I recall inventing quite a few cursewords the last time I played it, in which i completely gave up on the last screen before the final boss.
Doesnt seem like a sane idea for anyone to pick this game for 15 points, how about a corresponding amount of points pr level?
1 point for level 1, 2 points for level 2, 3 points for level 3 and so on, making a total of 21 points. Deaths allowed, but no continues? If that is the way the game works, I forget.

EDIT : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkKlSdUxBhM&feature=related I defo recall Level 2-2, that one is the first point of frustration I guess. And the 3-3 boss is hard as well...
4-3 and 4-4 ... damn. This game has caused me a great deal of frustration
And that damned decending section on 5-2.

Allright, if we have a copy, this should be good to go.

I have it . The scoring system you suggest sounds pretty fair, I wasn't sure how many points max there could be for stage 1 games. I remember when Karel visited my place 2 years or so ago I was able to play through the game without any continues so it's doable . Haven't played it since then though. I just tried a run to see how it would go. Well, I got to stage 3-2 without any problems but then I went game over 5 times there haha, stupid eagles. World 4 was no problem again but I got stuck again on world 5. When I was more trained at this game only world 6 and particularly stage 6-2 would always give me a lot of trouble. The spin attack makes it a lot easier though so it's really worth it to learn where those are located. With it you can just kill any enemies in the air so you don't get knocked into pits and you can kill pretty much any boss with it in a few seconds doing 1 spin attack jump.

Third and perhaps final draft, hopefully there will be no more changes, only minor adjustments.


NLG RETRO STAGE 1 - 10 Games

Starwing
SMB1
SMB3 ( 3 points pr level done in world 8 )
Chip N Dale
DKC1 World 8 + K.K.Rool
Bubble Bobble ( 3 points for every 10 levels )
Ninja Gaiden
Super Probotector
Super Mario Kart
Goldeneye ( 1 point pr level , no death, 00 Agents. 1 hour time limit. )

STAGE 2 - 5 Games

SMW ( 20 lives challenge )
DKC1 ( Helper lvls, get the most coins\animal symbols )
Zelda 3 ( Time starts when opening a new file, ends when door to sanctuary is completely open )
Startropics ( Complete game from last savepoint. 1 point rewarded for every heart and ammunition remaining upon completion)
F-Zero X Death mode


STAGE 3 - 15 Games, First to 5 wins. Games are picked at random.

SMB3 Battle Mode
Smash bros
Wave Race 64
Mario Party 1
Mario Tennis
Bubble Bobble
Goldeneye 007
Circuit Breakers
SMK Battle Mode
Turtles Tournament Fighter
Doritos Crash Course
Fusion Frenzy
Episode 1 Racer
F Zero X
SMB1 1-1 to 1-4

STAGE 4

DKC1 World 1
Zelda 1. First to get three trifoce shards.






Allright, any questions suggestions etc, you know where to send them.

I will make a new list outlining the specific rules for each game over the weekend.

I thought SMB1 final was agreed upon like last time? Unless both parties agreed on zelda? You can't get better than simul SMB1 runs for viewing spectacle imo

yea well I would be in favor of SMB instead of Zelda for finals anyways, I mean I've barely tried the first Zelda so I guess I'd have to be practicing that like crazy to have any chanse heh.

Ah who am I kidding, SMB1 does need to be in there.

How about DKC1 for Semi Finals, SMB1 for finals, and Zelda 1 fr 3rd place decider.
Any other ideas?

Perfect Dark for Semifinals

I wouldn't mind some PD, but I guess not suitable for the (semi) final stages. Some of those challenges, or missions are fantastic though. And multi is not half bad either.

KVD wrote:I wouldn't mind some PD, but I guess not suitable for the (semi) final stages. Some of those challenges, or missions are fantastic though. And multi is not half bad either.

Im not yet done with finalizing Stage 3.
I could easily swap GE for PD, but I uess thats not what you guys want.
If I am to swap with something else it wil be far more difficult im afraid.