NLG Retro 2011 planning

Allright, so the time has come yet again.

NLG Retro will be arranged in The House of Gaming in Utrecht - Holland from the 29th to 31st of july.

The tournament will be arranged similarly to NLG 08, divided into 4 stages.

So far the games and modes have not been chosen, and hence I ask for some input during the next week
before things get finalized.

My own suggestions -

Super Mario Bros 1, 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64
Donkey Kong Country 1
Starwing
Lylat Wars
Super Mario Kart
Mario Party 1
Doritos Crash Course *
Fusion Frenzy *

*Not technically Retro, but operates like it was from the golden era.


Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to add mode and settings as well.

Alrighty, the games I have:

NES
you must be kidding me?

SNES
Super Mario Allstars
Super Mario World
DKC1, 2, 3
UN Squadron
Stunt Race FX
SMK (oh really?)
Starwing
The Lion King
International Superstar Soccer Deluxe
Tin Tin au Tibet
Asterix
Asterix & Obelix
Mario is Missing

N64
Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Mario Kart 64
ISS64, '98 & 2000
Donkey Kong 64
F-Zero X
GoldenEye 007
Perfect Dark
The Legend of Zelda: OOT
The Legend of Zelda: MM
Mario Golf
Mario Tennis
Super Smash Bros
Jet Force Gemini
Mario Party
Lylat Wars
Blast Corps
FIFA '98
Yoshi's Story
Diddy Kong Racing

NGC
Metroid Prime
F-Zero GX
Wave Race Bluestorm
Starwars Rogue Leader: RS II
Super Mario Sunshine
Worms 3D
Burnout 2: Point of Impact
Mariokart: DD
Starfox Adventures
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
The Legend of Zelda: TWW
The Legend of Zelda: TP
Super Smash Bros Melee
Hitman 2: Silent Assassin
Pikmin
Timesplitters 2
Soul Calibur 2
ISS 2
F1 2002
Mario Party 4
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour

And the entire PES series (bar PES1 and the most recent one) on PS2/PS3. All SF's on PS3, all GTAs on PS2. Circuit Breakers (would be good for Retro I spose).
Like 95% of this list is absolute useless and irrelevant for this type of thing, good luck distilling some useful candidates.

Allright , thanks for the overview Karel.

Im currently working on the first draft, and it should be up before long, at the latest this weekend.

Also, can I get a console count, as in how many nes\snes and n64`s you have at your place,
and perhaps also a crt tv count?

Cheers.

My hype bar just popped up a notch.

Seems like I don't need to bring any of my own N64 games, though I've got a couple of controllers I could bring. Freshly repaired since (IE not used) Mr. Sargoth fixed'em up for me.

I do have a couple of NES games though:

- SMB 1-3
- Chip'n Dale
- The Flintstones
- Star Tropics (which is the greatest game of all time in any given context ever)

I could just bring the entire setup with console, controllers and games if necessary.

- Ulf

Yeah we don't have a NES here (or maybe Patrick has one, I'm not sure), so bringing one of those babies would be a wise idea (even if Patrick does have one, then N=1).

Also, Patrick might have mentioned this, but Piet is visiting our place this weekend, so that could be used as a good opportunity to test some challenges (maybe you (Ulf / Sar + whoever) could then do the same thing alongside over in Orkanger). It shouldn't be too hard to get hold of el Wessels through MSN this weekend.

Unfortunately I will not be home at all myself this weekend (what else is new? ), but the Retro tournament format of NLG 2008 worked fine without my intervention in the planning phase anyway, so I trust you can come up with a few healthy challenges.

Also, Patrick and me were discussing the possible integration of emulator play into these tournos. It has it's obvious cons (1 -3 frames delay & eventual lesser degree of nostalgic feelings), but we feel it should not be immediately discarded as the pro's are also quite substantial. For one, all games we can think of are available, but most importantly, through the use of saved states we could pick ANY stage/situation/lvl/setting of a game as the challenge podium, whereas right now we're usually restricted to lvl 1/ the very beginning of games. Emu play could facilitate the use of Zelda games for instance (think about the gazillions of mini games (fishing to name one) that could be used throughout the series!!*drools), which are otherwise completely unsuitable for inclusion in Retro tournos, as the beginnings are usually unchallenging and slow.

There are like 5 SNES', anything between 3 and 5 N64s, a PS3, a Wii, 3 cubes present. Even NTSC SNES and N64s if necessary somehow. And Wouter is bringing his N64DD (lol).

Allright, here is the first draft.
It`s a bit rough and missing games in the three first categories, also the rules are not outlined at this point.
Any games you feel are missing? Let me know.
Also, do feel free to check out some of the games\challenges to see if they work. I will be doing this as well the next week,
and then the final games and rulings will be set.


NLG RETRO STAGE 1 - 10 Games

Starwing
SMB1
SMB3 ( 3 points pr level done in world 8 )
Chip N Dale
Castlevania
Super Probotector
Super Mario Kart
Goldeneye ( 1 point pr level , no death ? )

STAGE 2 - 5 Games

SMW ( 20 lives challenge )
DKC1 ( Helper lvls )
Zelda Minigame ?
Startropics ( Complete game from last savepoint. 1 point rewarded for every heart and ammunition remaining upon completion )


STAGE 3 - 15 Games, 5 are picked

SMB3 Battle Mode
Super Smash Bros
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party 1
Mario Tennis
Wave Race 64
Goldeneye 007
Circuit Breakers
SMK Battle Mode
Turtles Tournament Fighter

STAGE 4

DKC1
SMB1

Was discussing the possibility of including the multiplayer of Lylat Wars in stage 3 with Sargoth. We're probably going to test the prospect come weekend, though we'd love some thoughts from you guys too. So, what about it? Is it viable?

-Ulf

I was thinking F-Zero X Death Race would fit REALLY well into stage 2!

Instant access from the menu, relatively short challenge, game keeps the time & score (very discriminative).
Example vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQerevUTTMQ

You could get the top ranks by knocking all cars in the fastest time possible, but even if you die during your attempt, you could be ranked according to how many rivals you've managed to knock off before you fell.

KVD wrote:I was thinking F-Zero X Death Race would fit REALLY well into stage 2!

Instant access from the menu, relatively short challenge, game keeps the time & score (very discriminative).
Example vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQerevUTTMQ

You could get the top ranks by knocking all cars in the fastest time possible, but even if you die during your attempt, you could be ranked according to how many rivals you've managed to knock off before you fell.

Gotta say that does indeed look absolutely perfect, no matter how much I blow at this game
Good length , proper challenge and as you said very discriminative ( which is a criteria that made me drop several other ideas )
Sadly I dont have a way of testing this one myself, but simply by the looks of it, this one is amongst the 5 candidates at the moment.
Can you verify that there is no loophole to this challenge? Some sort of cheeky technique that makes it very easy or something along those lines?

Back when I played F-Zero X a lot I extensively tested it myself and from what I could gather the mode is not broken in any way.
Just to be sure I'll ask Wouter (our F-ZX expert) to verify this though.

Giddiyup

Allright boys,

I Do have a NES / SNES / N64 / NGC and a 40 inch TV we can use for simultanious finals.

I agree with Karel about the setup, its fast, challenging and variating and above all FUN! and Retro!!
Though the games are somewhat the same e.g. final / semi finals.

Added games might be...
NES
tetris / dr mario (yeah yeah prolly im the only one able to score with this)
bubble bobble
zelda 1, first level or reach a certain point in the game. Also great game for Final!! Its retro as fuck and so much skills and variation!! So nothing can be said if both go a different route...

SNES
Zelda 3 : first to santuary (time for score messure) Its variating and not straight lined.

N64
Tetrisphere (many modes to do here)
Star wars podracer
F-Zero X (kill as many drivers in a cup but still end up first or your score gets divided by your place) E.G. 2nd = halve the points, 3rd = 1/3rd of the points

Lylat wars multiplay...
Its fun its something new and worth trying out. Will tests a few rounds this weekend to see how skillfull it can get.

And last but not least!!!
TEAMS!!! Its not so retro but current day life flourishes with teamgames, so why not apply it to retro games. Form up teams and work together on a result that messures with the others.
Only thing im concerned is that we all know who will win and who wants to be with whom. But for some games it still serves a thrill!

So far my thoughts and addition to the tournee.
Greetz, Patrick

SNAP!

Can someone contact, notify and invite Illu for all this, PLOX! And why not Eise (who lives in Sweden, but is Dutch, so might not be hard to convince him to come over)?
Maybe it'd get too busy, but meh, we'll survive.

KVD wrote:SNAP!

Can someone contact, notify and invite Illu for all this, PLOX! And why not Eise (who lives in Sweden, but is Dutch, so might not be hard to convince him to come over)?
Maybe it'd get too busy, but meh, we'll survive.

Illu? Are you sure? Are your walls fortified?

Anyway, this is a bit off topic, I guess, but as Patrick mentioned; I'd love to see a separate team tourney, both retro and in Street Fighter.

Meridian wrote:Allright boys,

Snip

Patrick

Yeah I`m aware that the games are somewhat the same, however that was the intention. The number of retro games rarely changes sadly, and some of the challenges are allready so close to what I`m ( we are ?) looking for, that finding a replacement takes too much time to make it worthwhile.

Bubble Bobble was part of Stage 3 last time around, but I dont mind adding it for this year either.
Zelda 1, I honestly dont know this game very well. I`ve finished it twice, but I`d have to play it again to see for myself.
Tetris\Dr.Mario , I thought we did not have these games for console?

Zelda 3 , Sancuary challenge is something I was thinking about myself. Gonna try it out with Ulf this weekend to see how it works.
Tetrisphere, rare game, never did try it myself. Do we even have a copy?
Episode 1 racer, sure this can be used for Stage 3 , no problem.
F Zero X, this one is also up for stage 3.

As for teams, this is definitely doable for SF and such, but I feel it would take too much time for NLG Retro. However, we can try it out prior to that weekend to see how long it would take. The format would need to be different though.

all games but dr mario are in possession.

bubble bobble also a 1 vs 1 or team effort game imo. lots of stages arent easy and with team work for top score is nice.
10 min top scored team wins?

Hippobatman wrote:

Illu? Are you sure? Are your walls fortified?

Rofl! Epic moment, I remember it vividly. We were in the midst of a very tough struggle vs max cpu lvl in mario tennis doubles.

Well, allegedly there will be no shine this time (this is NL), so perhaps our current walls will do just fine. There will of course be plenty of strong booze and mixing water though, for those inclined to drink some.

So, did you try and contact Illu, Sar?

Allright, over the weekend me and Hippobatman have tested a few of the games and also come up with some new things.

Here it`s how it is currently looking. Second draft, not much is going to change from this point on.


NLG RETRO STAGE 1 - 10 Games

Starwing
SMB1
SMB3 ( 3 points pr level done in world 8 )
Chip N Dale
Flintstones*
Bubble Bobble ( 3 points for every 10 levels )*
Castlevania
Super Probotector
Super Mario Kart
Goldeneye ( 1 point pr level , no death, 5 points completion Bonus )*

STAGE 2 - 5 Games

SMW ( 20 lives challenge )
DKC1 ( Helper lvls, get the most coins\animal symbols )
Zelda 3( Time starts when opening a new file, ends when door to sanctuary is completely open )
Startropics ( Complete game from last savepoint. 1 point rewarded for every heart and ammunition remaining upon completion )*
F-Zero X Death mode


STAGE 3 - 15 Games, First to 5 wins. Games are picked at random.

SMB3 Battle Mode
Smash bros
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party 1
Mario Tennis
Bubble Bobble*
Goldeneye 007
Circuit Breakers
SMK Battle Mode
Turtles Tournament Fighter
Doritos Crash Course
Fusion Frenzy
Episode 1 Racer
F Zero X
SMB1 1-1 to 1-4

STAGE 4

DKC1
Zelda 1. First to get three trifoce shards.
SMB1




[i]
* Not throughly tested


Allright, any questions suggestions etc, you know where to send them.

Karel, I`ll try to get a hold of Illu today.

bubble bobble isnt going to be picked.... level 57 is death for soloing, near impossible
goldeneye isnt going to be picked unless its agent, only 20 levels in total and on 00agent even I wouldnt pick it.. to much randomness at certain levels

we gotta need a tetris in here.. its retro as fuck!

and still voting for zelda 1 final. great end show! let the players pick their game if both agree on zelda. or else random pick.

we got piet den dulk comming having nearly everygame in existence.
he can bring the remaining missing games

Meridian wrote:bubble bobble isnt going to be picked.... level 57 is death for soloing, near impossible
goldeneye isnt going to be picked unless its agent, only 20 levels in total and on 00agent even I wouldnt pick it.. to much randomness at certain levels

we gotta need a tetris in here.. its retro as fuck!

and still voting for zelda 1 final. great end show! let the players pick their game if both agree on zelda. or else random pick.

Ah yes, that level. I remember. Ive been trying to crack that level for years, looking for an exploitable pattern etc, but to no avail. Only way is carefully planning your progress so that you can skip the level. This I will be trying out myself the coming days.

Tetris, yeah it could be a Stage 3 game, but remind me, do we have a copy of it? If so then sure, eventhough Stage 3 allready has enough games.

As for Zelda 1, I`m gonna have to see some video evidence to share your thusm on that one. Can that be arranged ?

Yeah you can skip with either blue or red unbrella, but that is random. plus at that point you polly have boots making it impossible and beyond to do that level, unless you got shit load of lives, which in this game should be alowed to use them all. since boots can be jamming but also helping at levels and dying is sometimes strategic

i will ask piet for the games we want but missing

as for the video evidence... i think there are some speedruns online, but you can go for safety run (blue / red ring) and all hearts
also zelda 1 for stage 1 is possible to do a 1 hour run to obtain as much heartcontainers and get 1 point for each and 10 for finishing the game (which is ass tight squeezing to manage that too) but not impossible.

Meridian wrote:Yeah you can skip with either blue or red unbrella, but that is random. plus at that point you polly have boots making it impossible and beyond to do that level, unless you got shit load of lives, which in this game should be alowed to use them all. since boots can be jamming but also helping at levels and dying is sometimes strategic

i will ask piet for the games we want but missing

as for the video evidence... i think there are some speedruns online, but you can go for safety run (blue / red ring) and all hearts
also zelda 1 for stage 1 is possible to do a 1 hour run to obtain as much heartcontainers and get 1 point for each and 10 for finishing the game (which is ass tight squeezing to manage that too) but not impossible.

For Zelda 1. Can you show me a video of what you think is good for Stage 4? Just a youtube link with the start and end would do.

Also, for Zelda 1, I see the SDA World Record 34.04 done 8 years ago. Not saying it can go faster coz 8 years have passed of course, but that was a wee bit faster than I imagined.

As for Bubble Bobble, i have found 2 strategies tonight for Level 57 that do not require random luck. It takes some practice, but it is in fact quite doable. Lemme know if you want it spoiled or you wanna find it yourself


EDIT: I checked a video of the first dungeon of Zelda 1 just now, done but someone who was not speedrunning at all. It seemed very easy, and this very slow guy did it in under 5 minutes, Im guessing it can be done in under 3. Is that really enough for a challenge? Also, do we even have 2 copies of this game?

For stage 2, dkc1 complete all KONG letters in world 1 asap.
So not just finish the levels, also get all secrets, this will slow levels down and you must run through the entire level making it nire of a challenge then blindly speedrunning.

Summed up
World 1
Get KONG in all levels
Get all secrets
Maybe something else too just to make you think twice how to play.

Update :

Flintstones seems to not be a proper choice for Stage 1 after having done some testing.
Other options ? I propose bringing back the DKC world 8 challenge. Anyone got any strong feelings one way or the other regarding that?

Bubble Bobble, despite being flawed in ways, does seem to work properly and as intended for Stage 1. 3 points awarded for every 10th lvl beaten, meaning you get the points when you reach level 11,21,31,41 and so on and so forth. Maximum amount of points would be 33, by clearing all 111 levels including the last boss. This does sound likea lot of points, and it is, but it will stay like this bar some unforseen circumstance. I will continue testing.

Lastly, Illu replied to me invitation, and says he should be able to make it ! This is great news indeed. GE 007 salty runback anyone?
I will update you, or even better he will do it himself, on the situation and as to whether or not he will be bringing others.

Sargoth wrote:Update :

Flintstones seems to not be a proper choice for Stage 1 after having done some testing.
Other options ? I propose bringing back the DKC world 8 challenge. Anyone got any strong feelings one way or the other regarding that?

Good pick, but who got the balls =)

Sargoth wrote:Update :

Bubble Bobble, despite being flawed in ways, does seem to work properly and as intended for Stage 1. 3 points awarded for every 10th lvl beaten, meaning you get the points when you reach level 11,21,31,41 and so on and so forth. Maximum amount of points would be 33, by clearing all 111 levels including the last boss. This does sound likea lot of points, and it is, but it will stay like this bar some unforseen circumstance. I will continue testing.

ITs a good challenge, easy, but lenghty and so fault sensetive. not to forget the endurance of performance this game has! Worth the points.

Sargoth wrote:Update :

Lastly, Illu replied to me invitation, and says he should be able to make it ! This is great news indeed. GE 007 salty runback anyone?
I will update you, or even better he will do it himself, on the situation and as to whether or not he will be bringing others.

I'll start polishing my N64 controller XD